'Grassroots organising and direct action'
STEPHEN SPENCE is the South Australian convener of the Greens, state secretary of the Media, Entertainment and Arts Alliance and a member of the United Trades and Labour Council executive. He was interviewed for Green Left Weekly by MELANIE SJOBERG.
Question: Should the beginning of the Howard government mean an end to enterprise bargaining and a return to fighting for award conditions to reverse labour market deregulation?
The Greens' policy is to support an award system. We take a pragmatic view that where enterprise bargaining exists, we support agreements that advance conditions beyond the award. The Greens believe that it is time for a debate on the question in a party policy framework, but we don't suggest that party politics should direct the trade union movement. We do support the discussion in the trade union movement.
Question: How can the wages and conditions of weaker sections be protected in Kelty's "marketplace"?
Grassroots organising and direct workers' action is the only way that wages and conditions can be protected. We are still coming out of the difficulties of the Accord period. While minimum standards were being delivered, in a way that meant that the trade union movement stood down its troops.
For 13 years employees had the impression that you could advance without taking any direct action or accepting individual or collective responsibility for outcomes. The unions need to return to more direct styles of organising. The election of the Coalition forces this upon us.
Question: Should unions accept that the government has a mandate to implement its industrial relations policies? If not, how can the Liberals be stopped, for example from reintroducing sections 45D and E of the Trade Practices Act prohibiting secondary boycotts?
I don't think that any group should accept the right of any other group to beat up on them, even if it is argued that some people voted for them. I don't believe that the Coalition spelled out its intentions on industrial relations. It didn't announce that the intention was to beat up on unions, deregulate the labour market and drive down wages. Trade unionists cannot sit idly by because of some false claim of mandate.
The Greens and Democrats having the balance of power is the protection against reintroducing 45D and E. People voted to change the Labor government because they were dissatisfied, but they were also wary of the Liberal Coalition, so they took out insurance in the Senate. Greens and Democrats have a clear mandate to limit the empty social nature of Liberal policies.
Question: How can unions prevent further degradation of union coverage and membership, especially amongst young people, when Howard plans to make non-union agreements even easier to introduce?
It is only by strong organisation on the ground that unions can survive. It is the prime function of unions to be able to collectively defend workers' standards of living. Trade union members also have a right to not accept freeloaders, so freedom of association works both ways.
Question: This election was the first time that more blue collar workers voted Liberal. What mandate is there for union wage campaigns?
The majority didn't vote for the Coalition as a first preference. Our electoral system doesn't provide for adequate representation outside the major parties, which means that there is a discrepancy in the result. The decision to remove an unsatisfactory Labor government is not carte blanche agreement for the Liberals to carry out action without consultation and the involvement of community members.
The community is involved in trade unions. I don't believe that most of the community will agree with what the Liberals intend to implement.
Question: Sections of the union movement, including the NSW Labour Council, have been critical of the ACTU's strategy, including Mick Costa's criticism that the union movement's strategy was too focused on having the ALP in government. What do you think?
The NSW Labor Council is controlled by the Labor right, so Costa's criticisms are an interesting development. However, Costa is generally correct on this. The Greens support a trade union movement independent from any political party. There are times when it is appropriate to enter into an agreement on any particular issue, but not locking unions in for extended periods of time.
The ACTU and ALP boasting that industrial disputes have declined when real wages have reduced is nonsense. This is the reason that union membership has dipped.
Question: Workers in general don't see the Greens as a real alternative for them. What's your solution to this?
I can't agree that working people don't see the Greens as a real alternative. It is obviously a long-term task. The Greens received their best vote, of 4.5%, in Port Adelaide, a traditional ALP and blue collar area. Working people will come to the Greens in time. We need to raise awareness so that there is more of an understanding of our policies.
In SA the Greens had only six months, but we built up an average vote of 3% in an environment where the Liberals received increased support. In the Senate we maintained our position. We are now the fourth largest party. The Greens will participate in any campaigns to defend the public sector or Telstra and general standard of living issues. We also need to plan towards the state election.