Mayibuye, journal of the African National Congress, recently interviewed ANC President Nelson Mandela about the prospects for negotiations this year and the challenges facing the ANC. Mandela was interviewed by Brian Hoga. This is a slightly abridged version of the interview.
Last year was described by many as a horrible one. Is this your assessment?
We had a lot of problems throughout last year. The ANC was compelled to suspend talks with the government because of its intransigence, and the whole negotiations process was slowed down. But I don't share the view that, merely because there were serious problems, and the targets that we had set ourselves were not reached, 1992 was a year of disaster.
On the contrary, it was a year in which some significant progress was made. That was the year in which we agreed that elections should be held towards the end of 1993. It was the year in which we agreed on the installation of an Interim Government. It was the year we agreed on a Record of Understanding. Therefore, in spite of the slow progress we made, I think it was not a year without achievement.
The sense of despondency arises partly from the fact that, since 1990, negotiations have proceeded at a snail's pace. Does the ANC lack the capacity to speed up the process?
It may well be. But some people and organisations were too optimistic about the pace that the talks would take. If you look at the matter from the point of view of the conditions under which these negotiations occurred, I think we have made reasonable progress.
Who would have thought that, as a result of these discussions, the state of emergency would be lifted, political prisoners released, exiles allowed to return, a climate of free political activity in the greater part of South Africa would prevail, and repressive legislation would either be amended or repealed?
We have signed a Declaration of Intent, which provides a basis for movement towards a united, non-racial, democratic and non-sexist South Africa. These achievements have been made within a period of three years.
Having regard to the history of the country, especially the history of apartheid, we have made very good progress. Therefore the ANC had, and still has, the capacity to see to it that the
peace process moves forward.
So what are the prospects this year?
I think it is reasonable to accept that almost all political parties have realised the need for a peaceful settlement in the near future, and I think that we are likely to turn 1993 into a year of decisive achievements.
What impact has the ANC's new Strategic Perspectives [document] on negotiations had on the process? What does it entail?
I think it has had a very healthy impact. We must remember that the essence of the Strategic Perspectives document is to ensure the transfer of political power from a minority government to the people as a whole. It is based on the acceptance of the principle of majority rule and the total elimination of all forms of apartheid and minority rule.
At the same time the document takes into account the realities of our situation. We totally reject a forced coalition as the government demands. At the same time we realise the importance of a government of national unity, both during the interim period and when a democratic government has been installed.
We would like to forestall the possibility of a counter-revolutionary onslaught on the democratic government which will be established. We think we have a very good chance of achieving that objective if we are able to form a government of national unity as a result of a decision of any majority party which will emerge after the general election.
So this document, therefore, stands for the principle of majority rule, which is observed in all democratic countries.
The party that emerges strongest in the election, especially if it has the overall majority, should be called upon to form the government. That party is then free to invite other political parties with a significant following to join the government. We therefore think that the democratic government which will be installed in that way will be in a position to have a firm hold on the levers of power.
We also hold the firm view that the army, police and civil service should be restructured to serve the interests of democracy and reflect, in their composition, South African society as a whole.
But we are also saying that individuals currently serving in these machineries will not simply be thrown into the streets.
Some retrenchment packages might have to be considered.
All these proposals of the ANC should help allay fears of some sections among whites. The proposals can contribute to breaking their resistance to the transition.
But the essence of our approach remains the achievement of democratic majority rule.
Concretely, what specific steps do you envisage in negotiations and the transition this year?
We envisage the installation of a transitional executive council, and elections for a Constituent Assembly (CA) towards the end of the year. The CA will then draw up a new constitution for the country. That might take some time and might go beyond 1993.
Other organisations are calling for the reopening of CODESA [Convention for a Democratic South Africa] decisions and the setting up of a new forum altogether. Is this not reasonable, in view of the fact that CODESA II failed, and new forces might be coming in?
No, that we totally reject. It has taken a long time to establish CODESA. For us now to try and set up another multiparty forum may take as long, and we are prepared for that. CODESA is an effective organisation for any future multiparty talks. All that is necessary is that parties which want to make a contribution to the process can come and join. We will listen to any suggestions they make which can improve the effectiveness of the existing CODESA. But we are not prepared to waste time by setting up a new forum.
Do the ANC, the regime, and any other parties see eye to eye on this issue?
The ANC and its allies, as well as the government, do. In the last December three-day bilateral talks between the government and the ANC, we agreed that the forum for multiparty talks is the existing CODESA. It might be restructured though, in the sense that parties which are not members will be allowed to come in and to canvass their point of view.
If this issue and, perhaps, others lead to a deadlock, will those who agree proceed?
We don't think that any political party will be justified in refusing to join CODESA, and we will try and avoid that. But if, in spite of all our efforts, we are unable to persuade other political parties to join CODESA, we will have no alternative but to proceed without them.
But won't those spurned unleash violence and derail the whole process?
We hope not. We hope all political parties will use non-violent means of expressing their point of view. We will find the resort to violence unacceptable, and it will be the duty of the democratic government to address that question.
And the elections. Is the ANC prepared, given the overwhelming experience and resources of the National Party and other parties?
We can perhaps deal with this question by referring to opinion polls. They have been consistent in the view that, if an election were held today, the ANC would have an outright victory over all parties put together.
But we, as the ANC, would be committing a serious mistake if we rested on our laurels because this is the trend of the opinion polls.
We have to go out to the country areas and see to it that the massive support, which we undoubtedly enjoy, is turned into organised and disciplined membership. That is the task facing us. I think we are tackling it and are in a position to achieve that objective.
When should economic sanctions be lifted?
We have made it clear that economic sanctions will be lifted when an interim government of national unity has been installed. That is our official position at this juncture.