Coral Wynter & Jim McIlroy, Caracas
Comandante William Izarra was a key member of the revolutionary organisation that Hugo Chavez, now Venezuela's president, led inside the armed forces, the MBR-200 (Movement for a Bolivarian Republic-200). Later he was the first national director of Chavez's Movement for the Fifth Republic (MVR), although he left after a disagreement with an MVR "moderate" who later joined the right-wing anti-Chavez opposition.
Izarra is presently a national coordinator of the Centres for Ideological Formation, which organises grassroots discussions and debates about the ideology of the Bolivarian revolution that Chavez is leading. Green Left Weekly spoke to him on September 7, at the end of one of his seminars on revolutionary ideology.
GLW asked Izarra how far the Bolivarian revolutionary process had developed. "We are at a stage of transition", he replied. "If we were on a staircase with 20 steps, we would find ourselves [only] on level two at this time."
The Chavista campaign for Venezuela's December 3 presidential election is shaping up to be a major mobilisation of revolutionary forces, which aim to secure a monumental 10 million votes for Chavez. Izarra explained to GLW that the "re-election of the president signifies the possibility for us to continue to build the revolutionary process, and this development will allow us to continue climbing the staircase from 2007. This will permit the deepening of the revolution."
He added: "We must directly change the structure. It is necessary to change the existing state as a collective organ, to a revolutionary state. We must make more laws like [the one that created] communal councils. These are revolutionary laws. In this period, we must deepen the revolution so that we achieve changes in the basic structure of Venezuelan society.
"Precisely what the revolution needs now is for the republic to be directed by the organised community; to transfer the process of decision-making into the hands of the organised community."
Izarra told GLW that he'd just given a talk to workers at the Office of Supervision of the Banks. "This body supervises the banking system of Venezuela. We are trying to create an ideological network, the nucleus of a political formation to diffuse information at a national level [to various community and industrial organisations]. At each conference we hold, we try to establish a small team to be a centre of ideological education [for the organisation]."
Izarra had addressed a mixed group of older and younger employees, many in business suits. "I don't make a judgment based on the age of people, to decide if they are revolutionary or not. It all depends on their level of consciousness. We must try to stimulate their consciousness, so that they can climb through the various stages they must pass through during this transition."
He explained that "hierarchical structures" at work and elsewhere "must be changed so that decisions are taken in group meetings. I speak to the groups in general terms: each section, each area, must determine their own specific [forms of organisation]."
"Overall, the revolution must look to involve everyone who has been chosen by the organised communities" to represent them, he said.
GLW asked Izarra about the role that Washington is playing in relation to the developing revolution. He said that a sign Washington feels Venezuela is now of "strategic importance" is the attention Venezuela is now getting from US intelligence agencies. "The CIA has designated a regional director to monitor Venezuela and Cuba", putting Venezuela on the same level as Iran and North Korea.
"This means Venezuela, as well as Cuba, are in the 'evil' category, as perceived by George W. Bush. Venezuela thus becomes an adversary, in opposition to the vital interests of the USA."
This will be reflected in the October election to fill the temporary Security Council seat traditionally occupied by a Latin American nation. "The US has its designated candidate, Guatemala, while Venezuela hopes to occupy the seat that Argentina currently holds. There will be a political and ideological confrontation: Bush and the First World versus Venezuela and the world of the South."
The challenges faced by the Bolivarian revolution are not limited to hostility from the Bush camp. "The biggest challenge facing the revolution right now is the consciousness of the people. I believe that we must generate a consciousness that allows people to fully understand the revolutionary process; that allows ways to be opened up in order to change the structures of society ..."
Without revolutionary consciousness, the right-wing opposition, backed by Washington and Venezuela's wealthy elite, can "buy consciousness". "There are sectors in Venezuela without the necessities of life. These sectors may be bought with economic resources from the US — which [the US] is doing, with the help of NGOs and other organisations ..."
"In a little while, they could open up a breach also, during the election campaign. You know that many Chavistas have many needs; they are still very poor [and] have limited ideological conception", Izarra said.
GLW asked Izarra whether the current controversy over the expropriation of two golf courses ordered by Greater Caracas's mayor, in order to use the land for housing for the poor, reflected divisions within the Chavista camp. Izarra replied that there isn't only one pro-Chavez party, there are "various groups of politicians who are backing the revolutionary process. Outside the country, many people think there is only one party, the MVR. There are many more ...
"The MVR is only a part. It is the party of the president, but only one section [of the movement]. The thought of the political community is not homogeneous. There is heterogeneity in its thinking. There is not a standard ideological [position]. It is in the process of being constructed. There are differences within the groups that support the process, in these heroic times."
There "is a mechanism for when private property has to be 'resumed', for some types of expropriations. There are norms and procedures."
He gave an example of when it was appropriate to expropriate a latifundia (large rural landholding) — when it is unproductive and the land is not being used. "The opposition are trying to say it is 'communism', that we are going to take their house or car away. It's nothing to do with that. This is just propaganda."
A distinctive feature of Venezuela's revolution is the "social missions" that help bring the benefits of free education and health care to the poorest sections of society, bypassing the traditional government ministries.
"The role of the missions is outside the state apparatus", Izarra explained. "The ministries are very bureaucratic, very much part of the old system. The social missions are new structures that are part of the social changes; they are in the forefront of the basic organisations that are being created, quite different from the workings of representative democracy."
GLW asked Izarra about "socialism of the 21st century", which Chavez has described as the revolution's goal. It will involve "social production", he explained. "In the past, production was for the enrichment of individuals; in future, it will be production for the benefit of the collective. Thirdly, this entails direct participation.
"There will not be hierarchies. The community must organise directly ... people must understand that this new socialism means the common good, social production and direct participation."
Izarra outlined some of the features of the Bolivarian revolution's international strategy. He said that the basic concept of Chavez in international affairs is "multi-polarity": "Much of the world is [busy] fighting the hegemony of the United States. The world monopoly that the US is trying to maintain is coming up against the idea of multi-polarity ... the establishment of different poles of power ..."
"The integration of Latin America is also important", he added, "looking for the integration of different states, with inter-regional blocs like ALBA [the Bolivarian Alternative for the Americas] and Mercosur ...
"However, we must differentiate: There are currently two tendencies in Latin America that we need to analyse. First, there is the Atlantic bloc, representing the progressive countries of Venezuela, Cuba, Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Bolivia. Second, there is the Pacific Ocean bloc, which is heavily subjected to the politics of the US, including Colombia, Peru, Ecuador and Chile."
Despite this division, Chavez is looking for a way "to integrate the whole continent, with the concept of multi-polarity". "This also relates to the alliances with Asia that Chavez is trying to make."
Izarra said that personally he thinks "the relationship with Asia is going to determine the [question of] world multi-polarity. We need to find an alliance with Asia more identified with the process of revolution, to join with the countries of Latin America."
He added that a multi-polar alliance is already in formation. He gave the example of the Non-Aligned Movement, at the September 11-16 summit of which Havana assumed the NAM presidency for the second time. Chavez is trying to "stimulate the creation of a bloc of 'anti-imperialists of the South'".
"At present, this alliance exists concretely to respond to the threats ... of the US to the countries that Washington considers 'evil' — North Korea, Iran, Palestine, Syria, Cuba and Venezuela. These are countries which need to form a bloc, because they are directly threatened by the US ..."
"It is essential to demand that the world form an 'anti-imperialist bloc of the South', in order for defence against the US to be effective", Izarra concluded.